Discussion:
[Erp5-dev] branches which come and go
Bartek Gorny
2008-11-04 09:16:04 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I was very happy to see a branch of ERP5 in svn, the "version-5.2.1" -
looked like a step towards some stabilization. I set up a new instance
based on it, but today I see that the branch is gone - simply deleted
from svn, with a terse comment "branch is always bad, trunk must be
stable".

Please, keep in mind that there still are people out there who try to
use your code - creating and deleting branches offhandedly, without a
word of warning or explanation is rather disturbing.

What is really needed here is a description of the repository
management policy - if not branches, then what, and how? For example,
there are tags in use, but there is no explanation what a tag really
means in this case - is it a "rock-solid" release, or just a more or
less random revision with a relatively small number of test failures,
or is it something else?

While deleting the branch, you said "Delete branch, branch is always
bad. trunk must be stable at any time." Cool if it were, but it is not
- even your own wiki page admits it, when it says on
http://www.erp5.org/DownloadSourceCode: "Upgrading to HEAD can be
dangerous. You have been warned.". So you are contradicting yourself -
on one hand you say that trunk is unstable and sometimes dangerous,
but at the same time you delete a branch because trunk is stable...

Also, why do you think that "branch is always bad"? Branches have been
around since the old CVS days, and they are there for a reason. For
decades, developers have been using branches to achieve some stability
in their code. If you don't want release branches, then use
feature/development branches - this:
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.5/svn.branchmerge.commonpatterns.html
is a good reference.

Bartek
--
"Software is largely a service industry operating under the persistent
but unfounded delusion that it is a manufacturing industry."
Eric S.Raymond, "The Magic Cauldron"
Yoshinori Okuji
2008-11-04 09:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Hi Bartek,

We have already talked about this story. I don't want to repeat the same
discussion. Please read my message:

http://mail.nexedi.com/pipermail/erp5-dev/2007-September/001377.html

Branching is no good for us. But one had made a branch accidentally. So it was
removed. That's it.

Regards,
YO
Post by Bartek Gorny
Hello,
I was very happy to see a branch of ERP5 in svn, the "version-5.2.1" -
looked like a step towards some stabilization. I set up a new instance
based on it, but today I see that the branch is gone - simply deleted
from svn, with a terse comment "branch is always bad, trunk must be
stable".
Please, keep in mind that there still are people out there who try to
use your code - creating and deleting branches offhandedly, without a
word of warning or explanation is rather disturbing.
What is really needed here is a description of the repository
management policy - if not branches, then what, and how? For example,
there are tags in use, but there is no explanation what a tag really
means in this case - is it a "rock-solid" release, or just a more or
less random revision with a relatively small number of test failures,
or is it something else?
While deleting the branch, you said "Delete branch, branch is always
bad. trunk must be stable at any time." Cool if it were, but it is not
- even your own wiki page admits it, when it says on
http://www.erp5.org/DownloadSourceCode: "Upgrading to HEAD can be
dangerous. You have been warned.". So you are contradicting yourself -
on one hand you say that trunk is unstable and sometimes dangerous,
but at the same time you delete a branch because trunk is stable...
Also, why do you think that "branch is always bad"? Branches have been
around since the old CVS days, and they are there for a reason. For
decades, developers have been using branches to achieve some stability
in their code. If you don't want release branches, then use
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.5/svn.branchmerge.commonpatterns.html
is a good reference.
Bartek
--
Yoshinori Okuji, Nexedi KK President / Nexedi SA CTO
Nexedi: Consulting and Development of Free / Open Source Software
http://www.nexedi.co.jp/
ERP5: Full Featured High End Open Source ERP
http://www.erp5.com/
ERP5 Wiki: Developer Zone for ERP5 Community
http://www.erp5.org/
Bartek Gorny
2008-11-04 10:05:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yoshinori Okuji
Hi Bartek,
We have already talked about this story. I don't want to repeat the same
http://mail.nexedi.com/pipermail/erp5-dev/2007-September/001377.html
Branching is no good for us. But one had made a branch accidentally. So it was
removed. That's it.
For you, as Nexedi, perhaps - it is your repository, you can do
whatever you want. For everybody else it would be great. That is, if
you care.

Anyway, I guess I'm just unlucky - the branch was there for two weeks,
and was deleted three hours after I checked it out...

Bartek
Post by Yoshinori Okuji
Regards,
YO
Post by Bartek Gorny
Hello,
I was very happy to see a branch of ERP5 in svn, the "version-5.2.1" -
looked like a step towards some stabilization. I set up a new instance
based on it, but today I see that the branch is gone - simply deleted
from svn, with a terse comment "branch is always bad, trunk must be
stable".
Please, keep in mind that there still are people out there who try to
use your code - creating and deleting branches offhandedly, without a
word of warning or explanation is rather disturbing.
What is really needed here is a description of the repository
management policy - if not branches, then what, and how? For example,
there are tags in use, but there is no explanation what a tag really
means in this case - is it a "rock-solid" release, or just a more or
less random revision with a relatively small number of test failures,
or is it something else?
While deleting the branch, you said "Delete branch, branch is always
bad. trunk must be stable at any time." Cool if it were, but it is not
- even your own wiki page admits it, when it says on
http://www.erp5.org/DownloadSourceCode: "Upgrading to HEAD can be
dangerous. You have been warned.". So you are contradicting yourself -
on one hand you say that trunk is unstable and sometimes dangerous,
but at the same time you delete a branch because trunk is stable...
Also, why do you think that "branch is always bad"? Branches have been
around since the old CVS days, and they are there for a reason. For
decades, developers have been using branches to achieve some stability
in their code. If you don't want release branches, then use
http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.5/svn.branchmerge.commonpatterns.html
is a good reference.
Bartek
--
Yoshinori Okuji, Nexedi KK President / Nexedi SA CTO
Nexedi: Consulting and Development of Free / Open Source Software
http://www.nexedi.co.jp/
ERP5: Full Featured High End Open Source ERP
http://www.erp5.com/
ERP5 Wiki: Developer Zone for ERP5 Community
http://www.erp5.org/
_______________________________________________
Erp5-dev mailing list
Erp5-dev at erp5.org
http://mail.nexedi.com/mailman/listinfo/erp5-dev
--
"Software is largely a service industry operating under the persistent
but unfounded delusion that it is a manufacturing industry."
Eric S.Raymond, "The Magic Cauldron"
Łukasz Nowak
2008-11-05 08:25:27 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
Post by Bartek Gorny
Hello,
(...)
Post by Bartek Gorny
What is really needed here is a description of the repository
management policy - if not branches, then what, and how? For example,
there are tags in use, but there is no explanation what a tag really
means in this case - is it a "rock-solid" release, or just a more or
less random revision with a relatively small number of test failures,
or is it something else?
Well - what I see is that tag is based on revision chosen by "good
enough" unit test run.

Take a look:

svn log --stop-on-copy
https://svn.erp5.org/repos/public/erp5/tags/version-5.3/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
r24483 | yusei | 2008-11-04 23:10:20 +0100 (Tue, 04 Nov 2008) | 2 lines

Remove external references.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
r24482 | yusei | 2008-11-04 23:06:10 +0100 (Tue, 04 Nov 2008) | 2 lines

Remove obsolete.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
r24481 | yusei | 2008-11-04 23:04:43 +0100 (Tue, 04 Nov 2008) | 2 lines

Release 5.3.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

And now test report for r<24481:

http://mail.nexedi.com/pipermail/erp5-report/2008-November/027084.html

ERP5_z28 r24470: 2276 Tests, 2 Errors, 11 Failures (0.57% of problems)

http://mail.nexedi.com/pipermail/erp5-report/2008-November/027077.html

ERP5 r24473: 2276 Tests, 2 Errors, 9 Failures (0.48% of problems)

As soon as tags appeared I used them to choose "the good one" *starting*
revision, then it was much easier to catch-up head by tag-by-tag jumps.

Regards,
Luke
--
?ukasz Nowak IT Specialist email at lnowak.com http://lnowak.com/
Skype: Shufla jid: shufla at jabster.pl
``Use the Source, Luke...''
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